Warp, ZOO and jQuery

jQuery is our new default JavaScript library for ZOO and the Warp framework!

Dec
09

Today we got some exciting news for all the JavaScript junkies out there. We changed the default JavaScript library of our Warp 5.5 based templates and our ZOO extension to jQuery. Yep, you heard right ;-) All our old MooTools based JavaScripts are completely rewritten for jQuery and all Warp based templates and the ZOO make use of it. You may ask why did this happen? Well, here is the story!

ZOO 2.2 Release and JS Conflicts

First of all we put a lot of effort in our Warp 5.5 JavaScripts to support the different MooTools versions. In one of our last blog posts we pointed out that the Warp framework auto-detects if your are using MooTools 1.1 or the MooTools 1.2 MTupgrade plugin and includes the compatible scripts to match your MooTools version. This was quite a lot of work. Next up was the ZOO 2.2 release which made all ZOO JavaScripts depend on MooTools 1.2. Unfortunately it turned out that requiring MooTools 1.2 was quite a little disaster. Many people complained that their websites stopped working because of JavaScripts conflicts. To solve this issue we considered to deliver ZOO with two different script versions for MooTools 1.1 and 1.2 like we did with our Warp 5.5 theme framework. But we also thought about the recently released MooTools 1.3. We would have to optimize our scripts again because most likely it will be the default JS library of Joomla 1.6. Don't get this wrong, it is great if Joomla 1.6 would make use of the latest MooTools version. The real problem is that Joomla 1.5 will most likely not be updated to the latest MooTools version. Even the MooTools 1.2 MTupgrade plugin is disabled by default. Not to mention that many extension developers still use MooTools 1.1 and have not updated there JavaScripts to MooTools 1.2.

At the end we would have to support and maintain three different versions of our scripts for MooTools 1.1, 1.2 and 1.3 for all our templates and extensions which is really time consuming and we rather spend this time adding new features. To keep it short: We skipped MooTools for jQuery. The big advantage is that we only have to support one JavaScript library and not three. This is awesome. jQuery will also work with any MooTools version and will cause less conflicts. We like MooTools and it is still a great library, no doubt, but we had to keep things simple.

New Warp 5.5.10 and ZOO 2.3 BETA release

The Expo template we released a week ago already makes use of the latest Warp 5.5.10 version. All JavaScripts in Warp 5.5.10 are rewritten for jQuery. Expo is tested for some days now with no further issues. In general we are very satisfied how everything works out with jQuery. We noticed that the JS code gets a little slicker and we also benefit from the popularity of jQuery. By the way Wordpress uses jQuery as their default JavaScript library, which means all our Wordpress themes run smoothly with the built in jQuery support.

We are also put a lot of effort in our new ZOO 2.3 BETA release. All ZOO scripts are rewritten for jQuery. This makes MooTools almost completely obsolete for the ZOO. As mentioned above, jQuery is widely spread and therefore offers a lot of plugins to choose from. We utilized this fact to dump a lot of our own custom script written for MooTools. We now use more third party scripts, that are well tested and adopted by many jQuery users. You'll benefit through often prettier and faster effects. Check out the new category sorter for example. Editing tags has gotten pretty nifty too. Or the new datepicker…

Prevent multiple jQuery instances

Now you might ask, why aren't there any conflicts with jQuery. Well, we can't be sure of that of course. But we'll try to run along with the Joomla community here. There is an ongoing discussion on how to prevent those conflicts from happening. We have already taken steps and measures by implementing a widely accepted solution. We register through JApplication whether jQuery is loaded or not. In case your extension loads the jQuery library you can use the following code snippet to prevent our ZOO extension or Warp template from loading it twice:

JFactory::getApplication()->set('jquery', true);

We'll also ensure to keep an eye on this issues future progress.

Finally as always, take it for a ride... We hope you like it :)

PS: For more information about Joomla and jQuery take a look at the "Best practices for extension developers using jQuery" discussion on people.joomla.org

By Sascha | | Posted in Themes, Warp, ZOO

Comments (62)

  • Anthony

    Anthony

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    Nice!!! I look forward to downloading the new version. Thank you as always for making it better.
  • David Barratt

    David Barratt

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    Is the jQuery running in NoConflict() mode? or is it jQuery only? I"d like to use some jQuery modules on my site, so I'm trying to get rid of mootools all together.
  • Giulio Orsi

    Giulio Orsi

    |
    Very nice!
  • nike1me

    nike1me

    | Profile |
    can tell you how happy this makes me. this completely solves my problems thank you thank you thank you
  • ivo.haarmann

    ivo.haarmann

    | Profile |
    This must have been a tough decision with lots of re-coding for Yoo-guys...
    Well lets cross fingers it runs smooth (I installed latest Zoo 2.2.5 and latest template version already and firebugged it a bit and must say it looks promising (no errors so far)).
    Timing of the decision was right - before Joomla 1.6 comes out (compatibility would have become a bigger issue - I guess ;-) )...
    • sascha

      sascha

      | Profile |
      Thanks a lot! Short note to avoid confusion: ZOO 2.2.5 was a bugfix release and is still using MooTools. ZOO 2.3 BETA is based on jQuery.
  • connectr

    connectr

    | Profile |
    This is awesome news guys! Especially the ability to register whether jQuery is loaded. Now i'm pumped to work on some Zoo themelets for Morph :P We'll definitely be adding support for Zoo in Morph too, as its one of our all time favorite cck's. Keep up the great work!
    • sascha

      sascha

      | Profile |
      Sounds great! Looking forward to this :-)
  • clement.boillat

    clement.boillat

    | Profile |
    Thx all, great job !

    Just one question, as the documentation is for the moment not up to date. How can we set the spotlight effect with this jQuery update ?
    Cause the template.js file changed a bit ;-)
  • meriturva

    meriturva

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    I prefer JQuery to MooTools in general but in this case i think it not so a good news. I really would like to have a light website and to add a new JS FrameWork to my pages is not so a good idea....i'm thinking about size and performance of pages. Another point is that Joomla goes with MooTools and i think that we have to adopt the solution taken from the main developers instead to get another way! i know about WordPress but i would like to have the best product for my site not a compromise because of wordpress!
    Just a question..what about the YooTools ? are you going to release new version with jquery replace? i mean, if i will use only Wrap + Zoo + YooTools on my joomla sites ...do i need to have also mootools loaded on the frontend? in this case will be more difficult to find on the joomla extension site modules working only with jquery...i guess!
    • sascha

      sascha

      | Profile |
      Thanks for your thoughts. Yes, that is right. We don't prefer to load two different JavaScript libraries neither. But we had to measure between supporting 3 different MooTools versions or to choose jQuery and the benefits of its popularity. All Warp templates and ZOO are already ported to jQuery and the YOOtools will follow. Of course our goal is to load only one JS library. As soon as our complete product line up is jQuery based we will not load MooTools anymore. There are quite a lot of popular extension out there which use jQuery by now...
      • Me!

        Me!

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        Smooth scroll is no more smooth in Opera with jQuery. Also dropdown effect is more heavy than before.
        • sascha

          sascha

          | Profile |
          We will fix the Smooth scroll for Opera. But in which template is the dropdown effect more heavy? For us it is super slick in the Expo template...
      • meriturva

        meriturva

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        Thanks Sascha, i know about supporting 3 different versions of a framework (i'm a software developer ad it is always really difficult and time consuming to support this kind of scenario) but i really really prefer to say to my customers... my system works only with that version... and if the user just use mootools 1.1 we don't do any support or compability. Thats the way to force other developers to move and upgrade other components. The main problem i see here is that you choose a framework that it is not the one choosed from Joomla Core Team and many other modules and components are using mootools right now (i think of virtuemart in first)...so i don't think that will be so easy to use only JQuery in a middle complex site...where lightness and speed is more important.
        • sascha

          sascha

          | Profile |
          Just as note: jQuery is 26KB minfied and gzipped. And it is only loaded once and then cached.
  • matthew.king

    matthew.king

    | Profile |
    Excellent move. :thumbsup:
  • It's in my opinion that Joomla core should use JQuery anyways, so maybe this will push that dream a little close to reality?!?!
    • meriturva

      meriturva

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      you are right! they have to adopt JQuery! but sadly they are going to move to mootools 1.3 and in the next versions joomla will have (we hope) a comment framework integrated for example....and of course it will use mootools for javascript...and so two frameworks have to be loaded if we use YooTheme and Joomla...and i really don't want that. I love Wrap but with JQuery i don't know if i will adopt it so frequently...i will give a try of course!
  • Ron Severdia

    Ron Severdia

    |
    No need to support three different versions of MooTools. Just support the one that ships with Joomla. That's what the Kunena Discussion Forum does. Yes, jQuery is more popular than MooTools—mainly because there's so many existing snippets out there to hack together ffeatures. But if you're writing JavaScript code from scratch, MooTools is FAR superior. This change diverges all Yoo products away from Joomla.
    • Mr.Moo

      Mr.Moo

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      Totally agree with Ron. After this heavy news, I just can´t follow YTs previous decision to make mt1.2 a requirement for Zoo ?!? And now 180 degrees backwards ?!? Just stay with mt1.1 and Joomla 1.5... when Joomla 1.6 is stable, support only that with new ZOO and WARP releases.
      • Let's be honest, how many of you are actually coding new javascript functionality in to your website? I for one typically use what's built in to the theme and that's it...

        So with that in mind, and knowing that there is the compatibility mode for JQuery to run with MT...what exactly is the problem? Quit complaining.
      • mustaq

        mustaq

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        @ Mr.Moo

        I wish it was as simple as that, but Joomla Site Developers and Owners don't want to be restricted by the offerings of mootools 1.1 , sticking with mootools 1.1 really stunts development. Your comment about the mootools 1.2 Requirement for ZOO is one of the factors taken into consideration for this decision.
      • MTfan

        MTfan

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        Mr. Moo unfortunately that is not possible, because Joomla 1.5.18and highers offers two Mootools choices which are not compatible unfortunately ...
    • sascha

      sascha

      | Profile |
      Hi Ron, I think Joomla 1.5 ships with two MooTools versions. At least if you consider the MTupgrade plugin which adds Mootools 1.2 support. We think MooTools 1.1 it is too old and it doesn't even support all modern browsers. Lately we have re-written all our scripts in MooTools 1.2 for our ZOO 2.2 release and got a lot of complains because of MooTools JS conflicts. With Joomla 1.6 in our minds we most likely need to support MooTools 1.3 as well. So we have to support at least 2 different MooTools versions, better all 3 to satisfy everyone. Don't get us wrong. We like MooTools and did a lot of stuff with it! But as we wrote we had to keep things simple.

      We don't want to get this a "MooTools is better/ jQuery is better" discussion. MooTools and jQuery are both great libraries and neither of them is "far superior". If you are a good developer you will produce slick code with both of them.

      I also don't understand why this diverges our products away from Joomla?!? This is not a big deal and everybody should use the JS library which fits them most.
      • meriturva

        meriturva

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        You are right Sascha, it is not a discussion about the best js framework, but about the best tools/theme/cck for my joomla sites...and with jQuery i don't see an improvements only a way to have less work on your side about WordPress and Joomla bussines line products. Wordpress is not my choice, jquery the same...so thats why i am a little bit disappointed. Why didn't you ask to yootheme joomla subscribers if they are happy or not about jquery? maybe a poll?
        • sascha

          sascha

          | Profile |
          Right, it was not an easy decision. We thought about it a lot. Right now we are already working on new stuff which makes extensive use of JavaScript. Of course this also influenced our decision. We save a lot of developing time and it is more fun to implement more features :-)
      • Ron Severdia

        Ron Severdia

        |
        Hi Sascha,

        Joomla 1.5 runs on MooTools 1.2 (with the MT plug-in that comes default as of 1.5.19) and the Joomla Project has been urging template/extension developers to support 1.2 for well over a year. Last December, the transition began and template devs like RocketTheme began releasing updated versions of all their products (RT did so in January). For example:
        http://www.rockettheme.com/blog/coding/946-supporting-mootools-112-and-12

        So there's been plenty of time and opportunity (a year almost to the exact day, but the plug-in was available several months prior) for people to upgrade to 1.2. If users aren't using at least Joomla 1.5.20, there's a security risk and then need to upgrade anyway.

        I don't know what you mean by "MooTools JS conflicts" but the most common things are if people are running both MT and jQuery but don't have noconflict active. That's a much faster fix than rewriting all JS for a different library and a safe way to run both libraries at once with 99.9% compatibility.

        As far as Joomla 1.6 is concerned, it isn't even RC yet, let along GA. It's good you're thinking ahead, but you're putting the cart before the horse. There's no sense in planning for 1.6 until it's ready (and with 1.7/2.0 on the heels of it within 6 months). Also keep in mind that the MT 1.1 to 1.2 upgrade was a bit of a hassle, whereas the 1.2 to 1.3 update is almost no effort at all.

        Yes, use whatever library you want. We don't need to get into the MT vs jQuery debate here. But it still diverges away from Joomla because it doesn't use jQuery as the core JS framework. Instead of using the JS framework that's built into Joomla, you're choosing to add your own. Good or bad, that means less integration—a major strength, for example, of Drupal. Love or hate Drupal, they are very good at maintaining that level of integration among extensions. Developers leverage more of what's built into the core instead of putting their own redundant code in. I'm sure your reasons make better business sense and I can't fault you for that. :)

        Stephen, in general, jQuery is for hacks that only copy/paste snippets they find on the Internet. MooTools is for developers who are writing their stuff from scratch (jQuery is technically a library and MooTools is technically a framework—part of the reason why MT is better).

        In my opinion, you should have just stuck with MT 1.2 and update to 1.3 when Joomla 1.6 becomes GA. Charge people for the extra work and spend a little time educating your customers on the transition. But, heck, that's just my little opinion. :)

        • sascha

          sascha

          | Profile |
          Hi Ron,

          1. Yes, Joomla has a MooTools 1.2 MTupgrade plugin, but you can use Joomla 1.5.20 or higher and still use MooTools 1.1 (most of the time unintentionally), because version 1.2 is not enabled by default. Which means popular Joomla extensions still need to support MooTools 1.1 or they would be broken on a fresh Joomla installation. As we mentioned in our blog post supporting only version 1.2 in our ZOO extensions caused conflicts for a lot of our customers. Basically we want things to just work for them. We think this is understandable.

          2. It is not a matter of time for us to develop for the latest MooTools version. We love to keep our code up to date and of course we are prepared if a new MooTools version is release. That's not the point. The point is that it is a matter of time to develop for three different versions. This is just not a lot of fun and we could spend time much better. We are pretty sure every developer can agree with that.

          3. It is simple: Loading MooTools 1.1 and 1.2 at the same time cause conflicts and scripts stop working. Loading MooTools and Prototype 1.6 also causes conflicts because both libraries extend the built in Javascript prototypes. Then jQuery (in nonConflict mode) is different because operates in its own context not to interfere with any other library, which makes it really compatible.

          4. Of course we are planning for Joomla 1.6 even if its still in BETA, RC. Because we want our templates to be Joomla 1.6 compatible on the day the final version is released. Every great Joomla extension developer should do that. And if Joomla 1.6 will use MooTools hopefully it will use the latest MooTools version 1.3. Of course we have this on our mind because we are working with a lot of JavaScript in our templates/extensions.

          5. Joomla embodies a openes and freedom choice we really like, because it does not force any developer to use a certain JS library. By default Joomla does not include any JS library on the website frontend and Mootools gets only included when a extension requires it. Means you can built a great website using the JS library of your choice. No strings attached and not to worry about that two libraries will get loaded on your website. On the other hand at the Joomla backend it's not that big deal if you load your own JS library next to Mootools which is used by default, if it's compatible and works no user would even notice it. In general it seems Joomla has been built on open principals and welcomes everybody to use and add the libraries they need to power great websites.

          6. Regarding the "MooTools is better than jQuery part": Yes, we like MooTools for the same reasons you mentioned. You can write nice and clean OO code. No Question here, but you can also do that with other libraries, too. Using jQuery doesn't mean you are coping and pasting code, you can do that with every programming language. We wouldn't use jQuery if we weren't satisfied with the code quality. At the end it is up to the developer and how good he is at writing code.

          These are our thoughts about this matter. Your opinion is always welcome and of course we are listening to all concerns that might come up regarding jQuery. Ron, Thank you for sharing your opinion and if you have any other question don't hesitate to contact us :)
          • Ron Severdia

            Ron Severdia

            |
            Hi Sascha,

            I'll reply to each point:

            1. That's part of the "education process" I was referring to. Educating people that newer versions of templates or extensions require you to go in and click that little red icon to activate the built-in plug-in. Every template & extension has a set of basic requirements. Why couldn't that be one? It's a lot easier for the average Joe to solve than making sure they have the right version of PHP.

            2. I know it's not a matter of time. But there's no need to develop for three different versions. Develop for 1.2 and if you want to get a jump on Joomla 1.6, develop for 1.3 (the differences in 1.2 and 1.3 are pretty minor).

            3. You shouldn't load MooTools 1.1 and 1.2 at the same time, even though there's a compatibility layer that should take care of 98% of conflicts. Why would you load Prototype as well?

            4. That's fine you're planning for Joomla 1.6 (look for an RC very shortly), but look at the reality. Only people that are playing around will pick up Joomla 1.6 on the first day it goes GA. There won't be a migrator included and so few extensions will be ready that it will be months before Joomla 1.6 is usable in any form. My bet is that adoption will be fairly sluggish right up until Joomla 1.7 (or whatever it will be called) is released in June/July. There's a balance between reality and being in the bleeding edge.

            5. Yes, that's what I said about choosing whatever JS framework you want. But it still doesn't change the point that developers should leverage what's in the core (which includes JS, CSS, PHP or whatever) in order to maximize integration. This makes all extensions, no matter the developer, work better together. It's more of a philosophical approach against the "sandboxing" that happens with extensions now. Every developer is off "doing their own thing" and very little interoperates. Yes, the "freedom" is there to do whatever you want, but is that the best for the end-user/customer? I don't think so.

            6. Yes, I agree. I didn't mean to imply that you're hacks or anything. I just meant how jQuery is used in general and a contributing factor to its popularity.

            Thanks for sharing your thoughts. :) As you know, I'm a Yoo fan/customer and just want to continue seeing cool stuff from you guys.

            Cheers!

    • mustaq

      mustaq

      |
      @Ron

      Away from Mootools for the reason listed, Yes, Away from Joomla ? Never, you misunderstand the reasoning behind this decision : )
    • james

      james

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      Yes this is my opinion too, you should not change to jQuery
  • I see how it saves YOOtheme time and money and might prevent confusion. I don't think it was the best choice for developers. This increases the chance that a developer will have to run with both jQuery and MooTools at the same time on a Joomla site. This will hurt site performance and make other component vendors and/or CMS's look better.
  • paul.norcal

    paul.norcal

    | Profile |
    I agree that Joomla should use jquery but since the powers that be, chose mootools, and have consistently stuck with it despite large scale community objections, then I think Kunena did the right thing as a Joomla developer.
    I think this is a big mistake on the part of Yootheme as a Joomla 3pd. If your intent is to become more of a WP 3pd the fine but as far as I'm concerned this move is strictly a compromise at the expense of your loyal Joomla customers. So don't string your Joomla customers along. So will there be a Zoo for WordPress?
    Frankly I've dropped several extensions because of Javascript issues. I went back to Yootheme after letting my membership expire, specifically because of your apparent commitment to Mootools. Not because I have any particular love for Mootools but because it makes life easier when using multiple extensions. The constant refrain from many 3pd who rely upon jquery goes along the lines of "it is not our extension but a problem with mootools." or "... a problem with this (other) extension which relies upon mootools."
    Beyond all that, it seems absurd that you have paying customers who have their own paying customers and businesses and responsibilities who rely upon your products get no advance warning about this. I've just spent several weeks developing some zoo apps only to have this thrown at me? What a slap in the face.
    Telling me that this is for my own good, is a load. It is purely because you've split your attentions and you are willing to allow Joomla to take a back seat. So like so many other Joomla 3pd instead of doing one thing well, you will be doing a lot more things mediocre. now instead of being my first choice for Joomla templates, (just sent you a new customer on my recommendation) I'm not sure that I will renew.
    • sascha

      sascha

      | Profile |
      We are sorry that you feel the time developing apps for ZOO was a waste. But you really shouldn't feel that way. You can still load the MooTools library. This doesn't cause any conflicts with jQuery and it is not a big deal to use both libraries at the same time. Images you may use on your sites may have the tenfold size of a minified and compressed JS library.

      Actually we care very much about our Joomla customers. Regarding our products they will have benefits in the end. As we said in the comments we are working on some cool new stuff which makes a lot of JavaScript use. We are not turning away from Joomla. It is really time consuming to develop for three different MooTools versions. Instead we can make better use of the time implementing new features. We are dealing with a lot of JS in our templates and extensions and with new ones in mind we had to do this step.
  • Carlos

    Carlos

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    Congratulations Team! jQuery is FAR superior Mootools!! This is the right direction, Great move!
    Thank you very much!!
  • Daniel Rataj

    Daniel Rataj

    |
    Thank you so much :-)
  • shirley.shelton.87

    shirley.shelton.87

    | Profile |
    Do the template updates require a ZOO update and vice versa?
    • sascha

      sascha

      | Profile |
      Nope, you can use the new jQuery based templates with the old MooTools based ZOO and vice versa. jQuery causes no conflicts with the MooTools libraries.
  • JoomIT

    JoomIT

    |
    I don't see any problem here. I claim that if YooTheme had changed to jQuery without notifying, 99% of the users wouldn't even have noticed it.

    And yes, MooTools is more powerful then jQuery, but in the most cases you don't need this "additional power" as developer. And don't be concernced about the additional 26kb to be loaded for jQuery - most sites are using a lot of images having the tenfold size.
  • Tom

    Tom

    |
    I'm actually in favor of mootools. jQuery is great, but Mootools is a real JS Framework and we need one for building Joomla Apps. There is a lot Buzz on jQuerry but when you look at fat JS Apps, there are almost non build on the rather quick and candy jQuery Library. For Wordspress thats fine, but for Joomla we need a real JS foundation. Which version? Thats a difficult one. Most of the time we're using own extensions and so we can decide which MT to use. For a standard Joomla Template/Site i would always use the latest stable.
  • riaz.budree

    riaz.budree

    | Profile |
    Does all this jquery mean that you guys will be getting the zoo categories working as an accordion now :) kekeke

    Congratulations on thinking your decision through. Supporting 3 versions is crazy anyways. Here is hoping this provides less overhead for keeping everything running and that it helps to keep you guys pushing the boundaries as you have been.

    @JoomIT .... totally agree with the NO announcement comment.

  • Randal

    Randal

    |
    This discussion is without sense. We know you wont change decision now, after you do this migration to jQuery. It's a little bit sad you left mootools and for example we need 2 JS for build simple site with Kunena or even modules based on MT. Ron have right.

    After you do migration to Mootools 1.2 it was great. In future update to 1.3 will be easy. But you change your mind. You should forgot about Moo 1.1 Because enabling MTupgrade plugin is not to hard for people and most good extensions support it now.

    So, if you made this decision, please make us sure you take from jQuery what it have. Give new templates with fancy features from jQuery world. For example, more interactive elements than Planet or Motion template have. For start.. add to first level of menu possibility to have icons (animated or not).

    Thank You for providing the best Joomla! templates on the market!
  • Bruce

    Bruce

    |
    This must have been a tough decision. I support your effort all the way. It will ultimately make your templates faster, more stable and flexible in the end. I can't wait until you have all your extensions ported over to JQuery.
  • PunshDrunkLove

    PunshDrunkLove

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    "For start.. add to first level of menu possibility to have icons (animated or not). "

    Oh yes, heavily requested!!!
  • Reilly

    Reilly

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    jQuery focuses on DOM. This is one of the reasons it is so easy to learn, but it is also limited. MooTools is an extension to the JavaScript language. It makes no sense to load two JS frameworks when mootools does everything JQuery does and more. The Joomla development team made the right decision to select Mootools over JQuery, Yoo should have as well.
    • sascha

      sascha

      | Profile |
      Choosing jQuery is no bad decision. Maybe you should check out the http://www.google.com/trends\?q=MooTools,%20jquery" target="_blank"> popularity of jQuery. This is not only because of some snippets and focusing on DOM. It is because a lot of people are developing great stuff for it. To say it again: Both libraries are great. There is no "better one".
  • marie

    marie

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    With JQuery you are not going any more to be my first choise ...i will looking for a good template first to mootools based template providers...specially now that joomla 1.6 rc1 is released with MT 1.3 included!
  • Stefano

    Stefano

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    i don't get the real deal. i don't know about jquery but it will not have updates in the future? no new versions of jquery for ten years? what about when jquery will be updated? thanks! Stefano
    • sascha

      sascha

      | Profile |
      Of course jQuery releases new versions but they are very update friendly. Just copying the latest version and everything still works. This is great because Wordpress for example can add always the latest jQuery version without big issues. Joomla should have done this with MooTools too but that wouldn't be that easy because MooTools has a lot of API changes from version to version.
  • Why is not YOOtheme participating in the discussion on its own site?

    The main possible ideas (pros/cons/possibilities) are already raised and would have been interesting enough to hear YOOthemes take about those.

    To begin with you wouldn't have had to support all 3 versions of MooTools rather just as you decided to drop support for IE6 you could have dropped support for certain outdated ones and whatever request that comes by you could show the same shrug of shoulder. If you by any means wanted to support all 3 versions you could have developed your own "compatibility layer" which would have some limited number of functions to cater for in the transition from 1.1 to 1.2 and even less considering 1.2 to 1.3. I have done it in various sites I have developed and it have worked, so I can imagine you could do the same. So me don't buy that supporting the all 3 versions currently available for MooTools would have been such a determinant factor...

    Further to this practicality its really a matter of to actually be a leader and know what you are doing. Joomla! as we all know it is the most prolific one of the contending CMS:s in having a well designed OO framework and I believe the use of MooTools fits squarely in that mindset. The MooTools vs jQuery debate will probably never end here so no point in trying to make it anywhere but stating that jQuery is superior or better than MooTools is flawed. jQuery simply have more snippets around. But that doesn't make jQuery itself as JS library/FW better.

    In addition YOOtheme which was a Joomla! rooted template/extension club now taking the path of flirting with WP users and in that effort sacrificing us Joomla! users is not a move that will go unnoticed, at least not for me. Sad, because I truly had found YOOtheme to be the most optimal solution around so far
    • sascha

      sascha

      | Profile |
      1. We are participating in the discussion. Most comments are answered by us. Maybe you didn't noticed the small "replies" button under each comment. The answers are collapsed.

      2. Developing our own compatibility layer wouldn't make things easier and would cost a lot of time. BTW We think this wouldn't be a very good idea.

      3. We did NOT stated jQuery is better. MooTools it is still a great library and it doesn't matter much which one you use. jQuery makes it just a simpler for us because we can develop only for the latest version.

      4. That is sad to hear. Maybe you will get jQuery a second chance in the future...
      • Ron Severdia

        Ron Severdia

        |
        "...it doesn't matter which one you use."

        Well, it DOES matter. That's what this whole conversation is about, right? :)

        Again, I'll repeat it (because you've repeated it a few times). There was never any need to develop for three versions of MooTools. So that's not a valid justification for changing (even if it were true, I personally wouldn't think it would be a justification because integration is a higher priority than the extra development effort...but I digress).

        Actually, this whole conversation is pretty much pointless because the change is already done. It's a shame the conversation didn't happen before the switch, but I understand Yoo isn't an open source project and has made a business decision that makes the most sense for them.
  • sascha

    sascha

    | Profile |
    For more information about Joomla and jQuery take a look at the " http://people.joomla.org/groups/viewdiscussion/783-Best%20practices%20for%20extension%20developers%20using%20jQuery.html\?groupid=445 Best practices for extension developers using jQuery" discussion on people.joomla.org
  • Bernard

    Bernard

    |
    YES YES YEEEESSSSSS !!!! :-) Great decision !!!!
  • I am wondering if this also implies that all template updates (for templates developed so far) are going to have only jQuery based updates? Because as you know there are sites developed and based on earlier templates and some of us need to maintain those sites with Joomla! and related extension updates and needing to update and add jQuery in already launched sites I can only imagine that there are bound to be issues we will be now tasked to deal with. I am worrying and in some cases certain that clients will not be willing to pay for those additional labors one need to do.
  • sim

    sim

    |
    i'm not very happy about this. Joomla is mootools native...
  • james.stewart

    james.stewart

    | Profile |
    Maybe a stupid question, maybe not, but will there be a zoo for wordpress?
  • lorenzo.sfienti

    lorenzo.sfienti

    | Profile |
    Stupid question are often the smartest one : )
    It's possible to know a release date for the jQuery Yootools ?
  • Khommon

    Khommon

    |
    We can't wait more. Please publish a release date for the new yootools. We're moving fast to joomla 1.6 so in order to plan our work we need to understand when the new tools will be available (even in beta).

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